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Stevie Black: Hi. I'm sitting with Dave Mouradian of Melrose Oriental Rugs and we're going to talk for a few minutes about the various things he does in his business, including rug cleaning. So, I'm just going to start right off. Your rug cleaning service is in Melrose, is it a walk in facility?

Dave Mouradian: Yup. Yes, you can walk right in, pull right up, and we'll come out to your car and bring your dirty rugs into the shop.

Stevie: I notice that you also offer delivery and pick up services as well. How often do customers take you up on that?

Dave: When the rugs are oversized, they can't handle them themselves; many times they'll give us a call and say they want us to come to their house to pick them up. They do it there is a savings of 20% when you bring the rugs yourself but, in some cases where the rugs are so large or they don't have the capability, they do ask us to pick them up.

Stevie: I think I'll just dovetail right into to that. You have to go onsite to pick up some rugs anyway. Do you get a call for people doing onsite consultations about cleaning their rugs or a particular spot on a rug, those kinds of things as opposed to just people want to buy rugs? Do you get consults for rug cleaning?

Dave: Not too often, I wouldn't say. Of course, people are always calling up, their dog just had an accident or I spilt a glass of red wine, and we try to guide them through it the best we can. But, you know, most of the time, it's necessary to bring the rug into the shop where we can give it a, you know, the care it needs and the right solution to take out the stains.

Stevie: So, let's just jump right into that part of it. What is the correct process for having your rug cleaned and how does somebody get started with you?

Dave: Well, the process of cleaning a rug goes through a lot of different steps when we clean a rug. And, the first thing we do is, we assess the rug and see if there's any damage to it or what needs to be done. And, typically, we'll take the rug and we'll turn it upside down and we have a machine that vibrates the rug and we knock all the loose, you know, dirt right out of the rug, which is really important to get the down deep dirt out.
Then, we put it right in our washroom floor and we, basically, just hose it right down, and we put mild cleaning solutions and go over it with soft bristle brushes and we squeegee out all the soap, the water, the stains, until the water becomes clear.
Then, we have a machine that we could put the rug in which spins the rug to extract all the excess water or, if it's an enormous rug, sometimes we just have to hang the rug and let it actually drip overnight, sometimes two or three days to dry it, depending on the actual rug.

Stevie: When you say an enormous rug, do you have a size limitation that you pretty much can't handle?

Dave: There is no size rug that we can't clean.

Stevie: Excellent. I guess one other question I wanted to get into, you said you examine the rug when it first comes in, is it rare to find damage to a carpet upon cleaning it, at the backend...

Dave: No.

Stevie: ...once you've actually cleaned it?

Dave: No. Most of the time, we'll notice any damages ahead of time, like the dog chewed the corner or the vacuum ate the fringe and these are all different types of repairs that, we would in restoration services that, we would offer. And, we, typically, inspect the rug completely so that there are no questions afterwards.

Stevie: I guess one of the questions that most folks would want to know about cleaning a rug is what kind of a timeframe does it take from start to finish on average?

Dave: On average, we like to ask for two weeks between the go through all the different processes. If there was a particular instance where you were having a party... We just went and did a pick up in Arlington last week where she needed to be fringed and cleaned and returned and a new padding within one week because her daughter was having a baby shower and we brought it back and worked on it that day. We got the fringing done over the weekend and we delivered it to her yesterday and she was thrilled and everything was done.

Stevie: That seems like a pretty good timeframe to me. I've had a few rugs cleaned over the years myself, so I can assure you it didn't happen in a week. So, let's talk just talk for a moment about sort of the industry, automated processes versus hand processes. Where do you find yourselves? What do you prefer and can you talk at all about automated versus the hand wash?

Dave: Well, I consider our processes, basically, a hand cleaning process. I mean, we don't have a toothbrush and we don't go down on one knee to do it, but we're on the rug, on top of the rug, at all times. When we're getting during the first process, we're getting the dirt out. Our machine is a portable machine. If there was a doorway, where there was more heavy soil, we can concentrate our machine on that area. Firms that use the larger equipment and it feeds through, they can only work on the whole rug rather than working on certain areas. And, as the same thing goes for when we wash the rug, if there's a certain stain that we need to work on, we can, you know, stop the process. We squeegee out that area. We try different types of solutions to remove the stain, worrying about keeping the integrity of the rug. And, when it goes through an automatic process, it's kind of like putting your car through a carwash where, you know, your hood's going to get the same kind of cleaning as your doors. Well, in our process, it's different where we can concentrate on the fringe which is usually a dirty part of the rug or if there was an area in front of the couch where there was a coffee table and a lot of spills, we can stop and we concentrate on those stains rather than having to go automatically through a process.

Stevie: Are there different kinds of rugs and different types of fiber that require different kinds of cleaning processes?

Dave: Oh, absolutely. Every rug that comes through the store, we inspect it to figure out the best process. There are some rugs that you just can't clean the way we clean. As I explained, some of these new Persian rugs that they're selling now, the colors are very loose, the dyes don't want to stay on the rug. So, instead of one heavy, normal process, we have to do it in a different process where we give it a light cleaning, multiple times, rather than doing the regular process, once. Again, we're on top of the rug at all times and if we see anything going wrong, we stop and change the way we're going to do it to an appropriate route.

Stevie: I know, just from having rugs myself, that typically you want to clean a rug, sometimes, once every two to three years. Is that a standard rule of thumb for a typical wool carpet?

Dave: Well, I would say it really depends on the use. It's difficult to say. I would say, yeah, two to three years is a good amount of time for the regular, heavily used rugs. If you have living rooms and dining rooms that don't get used as often, in some houses, it's not as important to clean them every two to three years. You might be doing it every four to six years. But, more importantly, which nobody does, is to rotate the rugs. They leave their rugs in one position and what happens is that it gets traffic paths. That's when moths can come. These are different situations that we see regularly that one half of the rug is filthy and the other half is clean, where if, two years ago, they had rotated their rug, they would get more long term life and durability out of the rug.

Stevie: When you pre inspect a carpet, talk to me about some of the things that you are actually looking for.

Dave: One of the things that we want to look for, we want to see if there's any moth damage. This is things that people don't find very often and it usually happens in dark, still areas under couches, under beds, under a heavy piece of dining room furniture. Sometimes where there's not so much activity, we see moths. You don't really realize it, but we have to point it out to you so that you're aware of it. Very common is the fringe. The fringe wears. The fringe is only made out of cotton, in most instances, and the rug is made out of wool, for the most part. And the cotton won't last as long as the wool does, it doesn't take the abuse. So, working on the fringes we expect that. The edging along the side of the rug that is a common place for there to be some damage from being in a doorway or being in front of a couch. We expect that. Sometimes people have a plant on a rug. That's really the worst thing because you need to have an air gap. Even if you have a plastic plate, or whatever, it's very common that the moisture will go right through that. The moisture dries out and rots the cotton, so you don't really know about it, but you're rotting the rug. We bring it in and check for hard areas that might be rotted.

Stevie: There seems to be, from reading on the Internet, that there's a little bit of controversy about those who vacuum rugs, those who shake them, those that beat them, and those that actually air dust them which is compressed air, puffing away at the back side of the carpets. Do you have any thoughts about any of those various systems? Do some cause damage? Is there a reason why you prefer to shake them?

Dave: Well, we don't shake them. We pretty much beat them. We have a machine with leather belts that slaps the back of the rug, as long as the rug is strong enough to do that. But I think, as in most cleaning processes, it's up to the person that's using the equipment. If you're air dusting and you know what you're doing, you can do it the right way. And all these different processes can all get the dirt out of the rug, but it's the man that's behind the equipment. We've been cleaning rugs for 30 years and each rug is different. We approach each rug and see what it needs. But, to say in general, that air dusting is no good or beating is no good or shaking is no good it all depends on the person that's doing the shaking.

Stevie: To that very point, many of us spill things on the rugs from time to time, and there are a bunch of different products that are out there on the market for spot removal. Do you ask that we use any of those products or do you have your own old time, favorite cures that you prefer?

Dave: I would say, it all depends on what the problem is; what the type of stain is. If you have a liquid type stain where you have a lot of if you spilled a cup of coffee or a glass of wine you certainly want to absorb as much as you can, right away. You want to get paper towels and you want to put some pressure on it. You don't want to scrub. You want to dab. You want to get as much as you can out of the rug before we start adding anything to it. Then, I would say the best solution for someone that doesn't really know about cleaning, is just cold water. Cold water or soda water, these are things that I've got. Soda water is bubbly and the effervescent action of the carbonation brings the stain from the fiber, so that you can absorb more, again. You have to be careful, depending on the type of rug, with color run and not over wetting certain rugs. If you take a stain out by using that kind of a process, you want to make sure that you dry the rug completely. If you're going to put a lot of soda water or water on a rug, and it's near the edge of the rug, you want to make sure that before you just leave it when you got the stain out that the back of the rug is dry and the front of the rug is dry. Again, we got a call three days ago from a guy whose dog had an accident on the rug. We had just cleaned it two months ago. He wanted us to come just take the stain out. I went to his house, and he had used a lot of water, which wet right through the rug. It was in the middle of the dining room so there was no way that he was going to be able to dry this rug properly so that no mold or mildew or rot would set in. So, we needed to take the rug out and do a complete cleaning of it.

Stevie: Right. Now, are there any sorts of special grooming tools that you use on rugs, either before you dry them or after you dry them that are kind of from yesteryear, those kinds of things?

Dave: Nothing in particular. I mean, we pretty much have a standard vacuum, when we're vacuuming. Once the rug is clean, we take it down from the dry room, we inspect it over completely, make sure there's no stains that have reappeared, or any problems in the rug. We have a rake for the fringe. This is not anything from years ago. It's just a plastic grooming rake, so that we can rake out the fringes. We give them a little bit of a trim if there's any problems. Pretty much, we have a fine bristled comb, that we brush out the rug when it's wet, before we hang it into the dry room, to give it a smooth surface. But nothing that I would say that is antique or that we developed on our own, but just, more importantly, using the tools that we have correctly is the key.

Stevie: Talk to us a little bit about how proper cleaning might ensure the value of a rug over time.

Dave: Well, keeping up with the rug is really important, because a wool rug usually doesn't show a lot of stains or dirt. Wool is naturally soil resistant. So when you have a stain, or you're walking through the hallway, the fine particles of soil go to the bottom of the pile. And when they go to the bottom of the pile, they don't look dirty on the surface. And what happens is that those fine particles rub together, and they create an abrasion, which can make the rug wear. That's the biggest problem. People look at the rug, and they say, "Well, it looks clean." But they don't realize that down deep is the fine particles of dirt which causes the wear. So giving the rug a regular cleaning in areas that have regular use will make the rug last longer. The other important thing is that when you bring them in on a regular basis, before any type of repair gets out of control, where the rug is going to fall apart, we can catch them at the beginning, so that they won't grow to a bigger problem.

Stevie: Right. So, that said, that works perfectly here, so why don't we just talk a little bit about who does your repair work at the shop, and talk a little bit about how long typical repairs might take.

Dave: Each situation is individual. I mean, sometimes when we have to do reweaving, that's major work. It could take a month, depending on the size of the hole or the problem. Most repairs we can get within the regular cleaning cycle, two to three weeks, with coming to put a new fringe on, or fixing the edges. Those are the most common repairs. My father does a lot of the repair work, as well as we have a few other people that do it, but everything is done in house, at our own store.

Stevie: OK. So, I know that rug cleaning isn't the only thing you do. Maybe talk a little bit about the various rugs that you have in house, and the process of selecting a new carpet for your own home.

Dave: Well, that's a whole new story, that's for sure. We do carry only handmade Oriental rugs, from India, China, Pakistan, Iran. Those are the main producing countries. We have a wide variety of sizes and odd sizes. We have rounds and squares, and we do a lot of stair runners. The process of buying a rug is typically... The easiest way to do it... And again, I keep telling you about these places that I've been. Matter of fact, on the way over here, I went and I stopped at a home. It's important for me to see the situation. I go into your house, and I can see where the window light's coming, and the color of the couch, what other things you have happening, doorways, how you've decorated other rooms in the home. And what we'll do is we'll talk together about the size, and we'll show you how it's going to fit. And what we'll do is, if there's a question about that, we can bring different sizes over and try the sizes. Before we even get started looking at color or style, we want to make sure you're going to get the right size. Because many people, when they go out on their own, I'll go to a home and they'll have a rug that's too small or too big. And we'll be the first to say, "This is what we would suggest." And we would bring a rug to your house and say, "See this size? This is the appropriate size. Now let's talk about color." Then you come to the shop, and we make an appointment where I'm going to be there, and we look at different styles and different colors, after me having seen all of your surroundings. Then you'll pick out four or five different rugs. Then we bring them up to your house, we lay them out, and you live with it. It's very important to see it in the daylight, see it at night. I mean, if you're going to entertain, or you're going to use your house, many times you're using it more in the evening than you are during the daytime, if you're out working. And by seeing it in all the different lights, and seeing it with your furniture and your own lighting, it makes making a decision a lot easier than just going to a store, picking one out, and saying, "That's it. I'll take it." And that's a good process. Now, if, for instance, you feel that you need something that we don't have, then I go and I find it for you. I'll go to the wholesale market and I'll find, if you have that purple chair that you're trying to match, and say, you know, "I need to find a rug that has this purple in it." And bring you back samples, and try different things. Buying a rug is a process. Nobody walks in the door, unfortunately, and says, "That's it. I'll take it." Because it's a lifetime investment. And it's important to pick the right rug.

Stevie: Right. So, I know that that in home consult is a pretty big thing for you, personally. That's something that you really enjoy doing and that you've, I guess, from what I understand, have always done. How does somebody get started with that? What's the best way to get in touch with you and arrange one of those?

Dave: Email is always a great way to do it or you can just give us a call.

Stevie: OK. So that's it for us, I think, here today. We may have other interview podcasts coming from Melrose Oriental Rug in the future. I want to thank Dave Mouradian for coming over and we'll look forward to hearing from him again soon.